For grooving, high productivity is the goal. External grooving is generally less demanding than parting-off, and because of this, process security is easier to achieve. This allows the focus to be moved to improving productivity, especially for wide grooves since they take more time and make a bigger impact on the component’s total machining time than small grooves.
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External grooving methods
For deep grooves, process security can be a challenge due to the long overhangs required, difficulties with chip evacuation, and difficulties ensuring coolant access to the cutting edge. Single cut grooving is the most economical and productive method of producing grooves. However, if the width of the groove is larger than the width of the insert, multiple grooving plunge turning, ramping, or profiling can be used to make the groove. For external grooving, a tool with high-precision coolant is First Choice.
Application Tips: How to Apply External Grooving
Single cut grooving
Single cut grooving is an economical and productive method of producing grooves. When applying a single cut, these are the aspects to consider:
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- If surface finish is of high importance, use insert geometry with Wiper technology
- Make sure you use an insert with tight tolerances and the correct corner radii and width, ground inserts are recommended (e.g., -GF)
- If you work with mass production, use an insert with the correct profile and chamfer. If not found in standard assortment, it is worth investing in Tailor Made inserts
Roughing wide grooves
The most common methods for producing wide grooves or for turning between shoulders are:
- Multiple grooving
- Plunge turning
- Ramping
All three methods are roughing operations and must be followed by a separate finishing operation.
The rule of thumb is: if the width of the groove is smaller than the depth, then use the multiple grooving method; if the reverse is true, then use plunge turning. For slender components, the ramping method may be used.
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Multiple grooving
- For deep wide grooves (depth greater than width)
- Flanges left for final cuts (4 and 5) should be thinner than insert width (CW -2 × corner radii)
- Increase feed 30–50% when machining flanges
- First Choice geometry is -GM
Plunge turning
- For wider and more shallow grooves (width greater than depth)
- Do not feed against shoulder
- First Choice geometries are -TF and -TM
Ramping (turning/profiling)
I will need to add an OD grooving system to my lathe.
I currently have a single top notch 3 series holder that is is fair condition.
I have maybe 8 threading inserts for that holder.
I have purchased a lay down threading setup.
SO ANYWAY, if you were to purchase a new OD grooving tool, for turning small clip grooves. .031 .047 .062 wide, square bottoms.
I see the on side style with three or four corners, they look pretty cool but I reckon they ain't cheap.
This is low production so cheap is important. Frosts my rice krispies paying $28 for an insert.
THanks for your opinions.
I really like ph horn tooling for grooving. They have it all- od, id, end, corner, little, big. PM user “shop supply guru” sells it. Lloyd tool is his company. Great to deal with.
One thing I like about horn is their inserts come 2 at a time. This has been nice for me since I typically only need a few for a job.
A couple of my horn tool holders came off ebay and I got the inserts from lloyd.
Using one of their cartridge end parting tools too.
For the love of all that is holy, it's HORN. PH is for Paul Horn. The company is Horn USA. The website is HORNUSA.COM.
Sorry, pet peeve
I'd say if you've got a top notch holder already, and you want cheap, just keep it and buy the appropriate top notch inserts as you need them. I don't think you're going to find many groovers that aren't $25-$28 per insert.
I personally run a lot of Sandvik groovers to fit their quick change CoroCut 107 series of holders. I'd highly recommend them. But you won't like the price of the holders or the inserts, and the quick change/coolant through feature is useless for your low volume production.
What can a groove tool do that a parting tool can’t? (Unless the groove shape cannot actually be generated with the cutoff.)
For instance, If you have a .095 x .008” CR cutoff and need a .250” wide groove with .030” radius corners is there any reason to NOT just use the cutoff?? I’m not arguing...just asking!
It depends on the job. I have PH Horn grooving and parting tools. I got the one od grooving tool to make some .06" thick washers out of 3/8" stock. I don't want to use my 3mm wide parting tool for this. Also, I had to make some sanitary flange fittings. They have a funky gasket groove. PH Horn had just the thing. On the other hand a little itty bitty grooving tool is not exactly a robust parting tool.
Regarding cheap- I tried that. Two different variants of cheap, as pertains to grooving, and it didn't work. Where it fell down was very often I try to get as much of a clean back chamfer, finish, and length for part-off. Some tools won't do this well. For parting what i opted for was a tool holder with a removable cartridge type end. This way when the thing tears up, it's quite a bit cheaper to fix. This tool is always in the turret, haven't torn it up yet.
What can a groove tool do that a parting tool can’t? (Unless the groove shape cannot actually be generated with the cutoff.)
For instance, If you have a .095 x .008” CR cutoff and need a .250” wide groove with .030” radius corners is there any reason to NOT just use the cutoff?? I’m not arguing...just asking!
He is making very small grooves, down to .031wide. Finishing is better done with a short holder than a tool on a longer blade.
We use almost all Iscar for grooving. $28/insert isn't terrible when they last a long time, but buying 10 and putting 9 in a drawer for a year or several gets old after a dozen or so.. Ebay is helpful there, look what inserts are available and pick a holder to fit the insert.
For real small grooving I bought a Thinbit setup, but haven't used it yet.
I will need to add an OD grooving system to my lathe.
I currently have a single top notch 3 series holder that is is fair condition.
I have maybe 8 threading inserts for that holder.
I have purchased a lay down threading setup.
SO ANYWAY, if you were to purchase a new OD grooving tool, for turning small clip grooves. .031 .047 .062 wide, square bottoms.
I see the on side style with three or four corners, they look pretty cool but I reckon they ain't cheap.
This is low production so cheap is important. Frosts my rice krispies paying $28 for an insert.
THanks for your opinions.
For the really small stuff, I like Kaiser Thinbit. Great support, great products.
I make small things. Not tiny things, but hold in one hand or even hold a few in one hand.
So one part I will be doing is a 1/2" shaft with a .031 (?) E clip groove.
Another is a 5/8 E-clip groove, about .042 wide I think.
Then there is the random thread relief on some 5/16-24 threads.
Brass do-hicky made out of 5/8 hex brass.
So yeah, not part off blade category.
I looked up some of those fancy 3, 4 and 5 point star grooving tools. Inserts are $45 each. But if I buy 20, they give you the holder.
I guess I need to stop living in the 90's.
Thanks for the ideas guys.
Then you really ought to get them to change their logo. This is where the PH Horn comes from -
View attachment
Shouldn't people be typing 'ph HORN ph' on that basis then?
How about Nikcole grooving tools? They seem to have all the right insert widths and there is a set with a variety of width inserts, oddly they seem to be cheaper in the UK from MSC than they are in the US!
http://niko-nikcole.com/wp-content/uploads/sites///03/Minisystems_web_v1d.pdf
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/?fromRR=Y
EDIT : Some potentially good deals on ebay,
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr..._TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=NIKCOLE+grooving